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Most of your points are very good. Killing people is wrong unless it's for self defense OR defense of others. You should really tell that to the Muslim Extremists who are killing themselves and killing as many innocent civilians as they can in the process. Al Qaeda is killing people in Iraq. Al Qaeda has killed people in the United States, Spain, Britain, Saudi Arabia, India, Egypt, France, etc, etc, etc. These Muslim Extremists are the ones you should be lecturing. They stone people to death, they decapitate people, and they strap bombs on their children to kill people. The civilized world has a moral obligation to defend against this radical group. But make no mistake, killing these murdering thugs IS SELF DEFENSE and DEFENSE OF OTHERS. The military force in Iraq is there to defend the average Iraqi from these radical extremists. If they pull out now, the innocent people will be killed by the MILLIONS. It is a sad fact that there are many casualties of this war, but it is a war that must be fought because this enemy will fight us and kill us whether we fight back or not.
I do believe that is a picture of Don Rumsfeld shaking hands with whom???? Not the evildoer Saddam??? Not when he worked for Ronnie Reagan? How could this be? Here's some pictures from that commie station BBC: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42293000/jpg/_42293264_saddam_getty.jpg&imgrefurl=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/in_pictures/6130482.stm&h=300&w=416&sz=34&hl=en&start=8&sig2=ifexQz_Bo9QHogkRsIFKGA&um=1&tbnid=vcqBv18cTiguQM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=125&ei=0K-fRuPfIsTAiwGU-sTYCw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dphoto%2Bof%2BRumsfeld%2Bwith%2BSaddam%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den-us%26sa%3DX
The fact that Donald Rumsfeld shook hands with the former butchering dictator does not negate the fact that we are at war with Muslim Extremists and must defeat them. Either way your statements are designed to distort reality and change the subject. I know it's hard to stomach, but back in the 80's it was necessary to align ourselves with the Iraqi regime in order to keep the radical Iranian regime from pursuing it's murderous agenda. Even if you feel this was a mistake, it does not change the fact that Muslim Extremists have declared war on the West (and yes that includes you too) and that pacifism will only get us killed. Osama Bin Laden is on the record saying that Iraq is the main front in the war on terror. Do you doubt Bin Laden's own words? If we lose Iraq to Al Qaeda and the other Muslim radicals, they will use it's land and resources to gain strength, recruit more radicals, and eventually complete their mission which is to kill everyone who does not convert to their radical religion of hate and oppression. Come on Bela, you and I are on the same team here. There are times in life when we must fight to protect our selfs and our way of life, and that time is now.
Jeff
Jeff,
I'm not fighting and I doubt seriously that you are either . Neither have I been attacked. Oh, and the people that ran into the twin towers with planes were Saudis. Why didn't we attack Saudi Arabia? We have a dreadfully populated history of associating with and supporting tyrants (hard as it is to stomach) - e.g. General Sani Abacha, Nigeria, Idi Amin, Uganda, Colonel Hugo Banzer, Bolivia, Fulgencio Batista, Cuba, Sir Hassanal Bolkiah, Brunei, P.W. Botha, South Africa, General Humberto Branco, Brazil, Raoul Cedras, Haiti, Vinicio Cerezo, Guatemala, Chiang Kai-Shek, Taiwan, Roberto Suazo Cordova, Honduras, Alfredo Christiani, El Salvador, Ngo Dihn Diem, Vietnam, General Samuel Doe, Liberia, Francois Duvalier, Haiti, Jean Claude Duvalier (Papa Doc), Haiti, King Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz, Saudi Arabia, General Francisco Franco, Spain, Adolf Hitler, Germany, Hassan II, Morocco, Ferdinand Marcos, Philippines, General Maximiliano Hernandez Martinez, El Salvador, Mobutu Sese Seko, Zaire, General Efrain Rios Montt, Guatemala, General Manuel Noriega, Panama, Turgut Ozal, Turkey, Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlevi, Iran, George Papadopoulos, Greece, Park Chung Hee, South Korea, General Augusto Pinochet, Chile, Pol Pot, Cambodia, General Sitiveni Rabuka, Fiji, Halie Salassie, Ethiopia, Antonio de Oliveira Salazar, Portugal, Anastasio Somoza, Jr., Nicaragua, Anastasio Somoza, Sr., Nicaragua, Ian Smith, Rhodesia, Alfredo Stroessner, Paraguay, General Suharto, Indonesia, Rafael Leonidas Trujillo, Dominican Republic, General Jorge Rafael Videla (the dirty war), Argentina, Mohammed Zia Ul-Haq, Pakistan, all of whom leave many dead and tortured as their legacy. Oops, beginning to sound like us. Is it a wonder that we're not beloved? Your and my tax dollars, instead of educating and feeding people going to supporting dictators and tyrants. Ummmm. Makes one wonder, "Why?"
In regards to the 'Terrorists' That are killing all of these innocent people, you must put yourself in their shoes for even a second. We complain that our citizens are being murdered, and that the citizens over there are getting murdered, by the thousands.
But who was it that started this war? Do you think walking into a Religious civil war, wich has been going on for thousands of years, with it mostly staying in the middle east, was such a good idea in the first place? and what was the reason for this 'interferance'? surely you cannot justify making anothers business your own, and then become angry when they retaliate.
War begets War. Sending in troops only made things worse, as we can clearly see. People didn't use to be afraid of terrorists in their own countries before the military decided to stick its nose in matters that did not concern them. You can't have peace, if war is involved.
Dear Jeff,
I have a really good idea---our Army is out of people to send to Iraq so they have to take children from the Air Force. my son is in the Air Force. now he has to go to Iraq in Oct.for a year. Why don't you join the Army and take my sons place. The new equipment should be in Iraq by Jan. so if you haven't run over a roadside bomb by then you can use the new equipment they have. I think I can find someone to sign you up.mj
I think this is good for you to see: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/generation-chickenhawk-t_b_56676.html ???
About our college republican chickenhawks. Very interesting.
Enjoy the irony
Mary Jo and Bella,
First Mary Jo I would like to salute your son for his heroism. It takes a very special kind of person to volunteer for the Armed forces and fight for our liberties and way of life. I have a cousin that served in Iraq who died last summer from a road side bomb. He was committed to the mission in Iraq and emailed us almost every day telling us how much the Iraqi people appreciated our efforts and how happy he was to be serving. I personally cannot join the military now because of my age and physical condition, but I do my part as I believe all American's should in supporting those heros that are there fighting back the radical Muslim hoards.
This war is being fought on several fronts including the media and public opinion, which is where I feel I am most effective. Al Qaeda's strategy includes swaying public opinion by waging their deadly campaign in hopes we will pack up and retreat. As Silvester Stallone said in Rambo part I, "they drew first blood", and the sad truth is they (the Muslim terrorists) have been attacking us for several decades and are openly waging war on us. As Bin Laden said, Iraq is the main front in this war. If we quit in Iraq, we are handing over a victory to terrorists. I understand you and Bela are anti-war proponents. I too am anti war, but I believe in self defense and I believe that our liberties at least here in the United States come with a heavy price. If you go back, in history even thousands of years, you will see that unfortunately war is an intricate part of the human race. Those civilizations that were not capable of defending themselves were always conquered sooner or later. In some cases, entire races of people that cannot defend themselves (or chose not to) are wiped out. Just look at what's happening now in the Sudan.
Bela, you can list all the dictator's going back for 100 years, but I just don't see the relevance. In addition, your statements that we support dictators and tyrants is such a distortion of the truth I don't know where to begin. Our country deals with problems as they present themselves, and sometimes we find it necessary to chose between the lesser of two evils when making decision involving national security. But the truth is our country is a force for good in this world and always has been. We feed the world, we medicate the world, we fight back tyranny, and we promote liberty. The democrats in our congress have made the war all about politics and they are invested in our defeat. It sounds to me like you may be as well, but I hope not. The world has so much to gain if we are successfully in Iraq, and at the same time we have so much to lose if we fail. The Iraqi people flocked to the polls by the millions in several elections, which only shows they want the same thing. The word "Civil War" is misused in this conflict. There is no civil war because when polled, the Sunnis, Kurds and Shiites overwhelmingly want peace and want our forces to remain there until the place is secure. Sunnis and Shiites are fighting side by side against Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda wants the world to think there is a civil war in Iraq so we will leave. That's why they bomb Mosques and other public forums so they can provoke a sectarian war. They are losing this battle, and the only way they will succeed is if we quit. I'm not prepared to do that... you?
Hey, funny that Jeff -- did you see the video of why all the college republicans couldn't go to the war? Same excuse as yours. Amazing, no? The army has lowered its standards immensely to get people in, you might want to try again. They even take people who are mentally retarded now, and I'm sure they'll take older people than they used to. They're sending back vets who are still injured. I urge you to give it a try and perhaps you'll be allowed to fight for what you so fervently believe in. I, on the other hand, will march in protests, urge my congressperson to fund the returning vets and withdraw from this senseless killing field ASAP. I will send my money to MoveOn, Amnesty International, Americas West and other peace organizations.
As to the list of dictators and tyrants -- we've funded them all. We originally funded Osama bin Laden, as I'm sure you know. These are the fruits of our actions. I believe all people who are for this war should fight in it. It's the honorable thing to do. And I question why they are not. I put my money where my mouth is. Why don't they?
My dear Bela,
It's funny to me how you continue to skirt all the issues I've put forth in one way or another. I did watch the video you sent about the College Republicans. The tactic used by the host are reminiscent of those tactics used by Michael Moore in his 9/11 propaganda film. The whole idea that you need to serve in the military in order to support it is a smoke screen used to discredit a person's stance on an issue. For example, I don't need to be a woman to support women's causes. I don't need to be a gun owner to support the 2nd Amendment, and I certainly don't need to serve in the military to support a war. FDR was a very effective war time president and he never served in the military, so if you are basing your entire case on this premise, better think again.
:-)
We originally funded Osama bin Laden, as I'm sure you know. These are the fruits of our actions. I believe all people who are for this war should fight in it. It's the honorable thing to do. And I question why they are not. I put my money where my mouth is. Why don't they?
I agree with this. All things have an ends, and these are simply the ends to past mistakes. But the dues must be paid, and 'Playing with the Lion's tail ends in bloodshed'.
I do not think that people truly understand, and by this I mean 'Feel' with an understanding, the seriousness of the issue, just as the majority of the world did not during the previous wars. What happens when you swat a wasps nest? The wasps come after you with a vengeance. These 'Terrorists' do no have the same love of the physical world as most do. To them, The rewards of afterlife, outweigh the rewards of life. with this beleif firmly in the back of their minds forevermore, they have succeded in removing one of mans most binding repressive emotions; Fear. Our soldiers do not have this luxury. And A luxury it is, in a way. Fear of death has a habit of effecting a soldiers performance.
