I'm posting this topic in response to comments made by Chase on the Quick Poll of this website.  I respectfully disagree with all your points regarding Iraq and here is why:

Chase, you wrote:

"...but in my opinion, Bush is a terrorist...he went into their country looking to shed blood..."

Bush is not a terrorist, he is the President of the United States elected by the people twice.  He made the decision to remove Saddam's regime with an overwhelming approval from the Congress.  Saying that Bush is a terrorist is as ludicrous as saying the US Congress is made up of terrorists.  Any blood is on the hands of Saddam who could have averted this whole thing if he had just complied with UN resolutions. 

"....we thought that he was looking for those responsible for 9/11...we were under the impression here in Canada , that it was Bin Laden he was after..."

Sorry Chase, but you got it all wrong.  We did not go into Iraq to find those responsible for 9/11.  In the numerous Bush speeches and comments leading up to the war, he never once made such an assertion and I challenge you to find even a single quote saying this.  What you and many seem to forget is that immediately following 9/11, Bush declared war on "terror", which is a politically correct way of saying we were at war with Islamo Nazi's, the Muslim extremists who have been waging war on American's and civilized people all over the world for the past 30 years. 

 "but then all of a sudden, it was weapons of mass destruction that he was after...I feel bad for those poor, poor people in Iraq...not for the soldiers, but the poor civilians.....and did they find these weapons ?....I think not !"

You are right, going after Saddam's WMD was the main reason we went to war in Iraq. The CIA  lead by former President Clinton's George Tenent as well as all other US intelligence agencies were certain beyond a reasonable doubt that he had them.  British Intelligence said he had them.  French President Jacques Chirac said he had them.  Vladamir Putin of Russia said he had them.  Egyptian Intelligence said he had them.  German Intelligence said he had them. The UN's Kofi Annan said he had them. Democrats and Republicans in the House/Senate including Al Gore, Hillary and Bill Clinton, John Kerry, and many others publicly said Saddam had these weapons and that force was warranted.   After 9/11, Bush certainly would have never been re-elected if he chose to leave Saddam in power given the tyrant's outspoken contempt for the US and his known terrorist links. 

"...hasn't enough blood be shed ?....here in Canada, we all know a soldier or 2 that are over there trying to keep the peace...but many have been coming home in body bags..."

Why don't you ask the evil terrorist murderers if there has been enough blood shed? You can hide your head in the sand if you want, but I have my eyes wide open and I can see that Al Qaida and their ilk are in Iraq, Afghanistan and other places in the world and they would love to get their hands on a dirty bomb or nuke and wipe out as many non-Muslims as possible.  FYI, they also kill other Muslims that are not radical enough, so please don't tell me this is limited to American's or some line like that.    It's a shame that we are losing good men and women in this battle, but they are heros and they are doing what must be done.  Bin Laden himself and his number 2 Zawahiri have publicly said that Iraq is the main front in their Jihad.

"...I think Bush let Bin Laden get away...he probably knows were he is, but there is oil money at stake"

A little proof would be nice. 

"...tell me Jeff....do you really believe that your country was being threatened by theses people ?"

Do I believe it?  The fact that you are even asking this shows how blind you are to what is happening in the world.  Does 9/11 right a bell?  Does the first bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 ring a bell?  Does the bombing of the USS Cole ring a bell?  How about the Madrid Spain bombings, or the attempt to bomb Spain again a year later AFTER they had already pulled out their troops from Iraq?  How about the train bombings in India?  Or the hundreds of Russian children killed by the Muslim terrorists just a few years ago?  Or the attempt to bomb a dozen commercial aircraft travelling from the UK to the US?  Every last one of of these attacks are perpetrated by "Islamo N a z i s" that are hell bent on converting you and me over to their radical religion "by tongue and cheek".   Unfortunately a majority of the Democrats in the US Congress are more interested in "picking up Senate seats" (this according to Harry Reid the Senate Majority leader), then winning this war.  I can quote every one of these Democrats saying just a few years ago that this action was necessary.  I can also quote several of them including Senator Biden saying that the toughest part of the war would be AFTER Saddam was gone.  Unfortunately most of the media organizations around the world agree with your baseless statements and are unwittingly helping out the terrorists who have said many times that their most effective weapon against us was the media and public opinion. Bin Laden said (I'm paraphrasing), that the United States is a paper tiger that will turn back and run away when faced with casualties.  If we prove him right, then every American, and indeed every civilized person in the world will have a big bullseye on their backs.

Jeff

Hi, and nice to meet you

I agree jeff the people choice is what made George Bush the President and that is why every year their are people like me incouraging people to go out there and vote is their chance for change.

As for the fact that he is killing people by sending troops to irak he has to he can back out know its to late he just can leave things done half ways.

I think that part off the decions of george bush is not all about him is  about the congress. George bush is just the head that represents the people and the congress he is the middle man in all off this.

thank you and take care,

Jeff...you forgot to mention how I called Bush a schoolyard bully....I'm not going to argue politics cause it's obvious to me that you know what you're talking about...it's just an opinion, nothing more !....I'm glad that you're proud of your President !...but I was always told that if it walks like a duck.....and quacks like a duck....it's probably a duck......but I still feel bad for all the poor innocent people( and yes for the many soldiers that lost their lives)

Although i have absolutely NO sympathy(nor empathy for that matter!) towards the terrorists & the radical muslims, i still feel the need to voice what i believe to be the factual truth here...

i was originally born in iran myself but i've been living outside of the country for more than 20 yrs. now, and i have had numerous 'close hand' experiences with what it meant to be living under the rule of a fascistic form of islam...

i am at the same time very familiar with the islamic culture, both the 'moderate' & also the 'extreme' types, and i was naturally HORRIFIED to watch the 2 passenger planes giuded by the extreme muslims hit the Twin Towers back in 2001...

However just ½ yr. after the attacks of the 9/11 and the retaliation by the WORLD in Afghanistan, it became obvious to me & many other like-minded "moderate muslims"[actually even this term is a BIG exageration when it comes to describing me, but since there are only 2 grps of muslims known across the world & the media, i have to choose this title on myself, reluctantly!], that this war against terror was beginning to take a wrong turn, mainly from the American's side!

Eversince 2003 onwards, i've felt more & more as if this war was designed right from the start, to take center-stage in Iraq(hence OIL which naturally means money, as opposed to Afghanistan's poverty-stricken country), and had very little to do with the things that we all had experienced since 2001...

Living in a "not-so-open-minded-country" here in Europe myself, it became more & more appearant that a new wave of Anti-immigrate policies were staring to take form within the system of the very country that i'd been living in since childhood, and this marginalizing of ALL MUSLIMS into a single bundle of people, became ever so more appearant as the war in Iraq has continued until now, leaving me & many others like myself completely outside of its culture eversince, almost like the 30's Jews in Hitler's Germany!

So i have to confess here that my life has been turned upside down as a direct result of the poor American foreign politics, because the more evident it has become that the American prez was NOT interested in dealing with the true sources of the 9/11 events, the more it has given the radical muslims more fuel to stand up against the Americans, and this in turn has given ALL of us other so-called "moderate muslims" a bad name all over the world, that we seem totally unable to erase from ourselves, out here in the West!

So plz do forgive me if i don't happen to agree with the things mentioned under this thread, and that i do not buy the sh*t that GwB & Co. have been cooking for the whole world eversince he decided to attack Iraq & to derrail the war on terror!

But to all u others, my voice here may sound utterly "voice-less" & "irrelevant" in ur ears, because u're probably thinking "Oh well, the poor b a s t a r d is probably just 'a rare case' & doesnt have much to do with my life(thank god)!", but i can easily tell u ALL that u'll all begin to "whine" & "complain" sooner or later when the overall impacts of the wrong policy-makings of GwB & Co. spreads & scatters itself all across every part of our societies like a Cancer virus, and ONLY THEN u will understand the REAL impacts of such fatal errors by the ppl in charge of ur societies.....the clever ones have already opened their eyes, and are already starting to count the remaining days of GwB's prezedntial period...sooner or later u'll also be compelled to do the same & join them!

Thank u all very much for all the attention & for reading this half-angry(not at the ppl here!) post by me!

Hi S.ph.s,

     First off I wanted to thank you for sharing with me (and others) a little bit about your background.  I know what you mean when you say you basically fall in one of two groups, radical Muslims and "Moderate Muslims", and I agree that's not fair.  One of the problems is that there are many un-elected self appointed individuals and organizations that supposedly speak for certain groups of people.  For example, Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson purport to speak for all black people in America and the media validates them.  In the case of Muslim Americans, its CAIR, the very liberal organization that is currently suing U.S. Airways as well as the passengers of the flight for the incident involving the Imams that were  were removed for their extremely calculated & suspicious behavior.

   There is a great American Muslim man named Dr. Jasser who leads the AIFD (America Islamic Forum for Democracy), I urge you to check out their website when you get a chance at http://www.aifdemocracy.org.  I'm quite sure their thinking/beliefs are more in line with yours.

    Regarding some of your comments, I really hope you still have enough of an open mind that you can put some of your "feelings" aside and look at some of the facts:

1. In the 1990's Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act which called for regime change. So this was ALREADY the policy prior to GWB entering office in January of 2001.

2. Saddam harbored and sponsored terrorism, AND we thought (along with everyone on the planet) that he had stockpiles of WMD. He kicked out the inspectors in the 90's and no one had access to his countries' facilities for 4 years!  What do you think he was doing during that time?  Herding sheep? That is one of the reasons Clinton bombed Iraq in 1998.

3. On 9/11 we suffered an attack that resulted in the destruction of the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and 4 commercial airlines.  19 radical Muslims orchestrated this attack over many years. This was the second attack on the World Trade Center in 10 years, the first of which was orchestrated by a radical Muslim who lived in Iraq for about 2 years and was on Saddam's payroll. Zarqaui, the Jordanian Al Qaida member who fought us in Afghanistan, fled to Iraq BEFORE the Iraq war where he received medical attention and later launched attacks on Coalition soldiers and civilians.

4. Weeks after 9/11, the President, along with the full support of the Congress and the American people declared a global war on radical Islam (of course I'm paraphrasing).  They publicly stated that they would go after terrorists all over the world, and would also target any country known to harbor and/or sponsor terrorism.

There are alot of ridiculous conspiracy theorists out there, and I really hope you are careful not to fall into that trap.  Stories like this are provocative, but they are dangerous because they take focus away from the real danger we face, which is radical Islam.  Unfortunately many people in the opposition party (Democrats) are so intoxicated with the prospect of power that they want us to lose the war.  Harry Reid, the majority leader in Congress actually said with glee that "We're going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war."  Senate Democrat Chuck Schumer said about Republicans with a big smile on his face that the war is "a lead weight attached to their ankle." 

    Before the war started, they were ALL in favor of the President's plan.  But for the past 2 years they have been undermining our efforts and downplaying our successes all because they believe this will get them more "senate seats".  It's sick, it's anti-American, and their words provide comfort and hope to the enemy and for this reason they are traitors.  Whenever these Democrats condemn the war, or say we've "Lost" like Harry Reid just said this past Friday, the media broadcasts it all over the world, Al Jazzeera picks it up and every terrorist outfit uses it to motivate and recruit new members of their murdering gangs.

Come on S.ph.s, you lived in Iran... you know that in the late 1970's that country was taken over by the far radical anti-Western Muslims.  This has been their mentality well before George W. Bush, well before Clinton or even Reagan.  You know that when they preach "Death to America", they mean business.  We must defend ourselves.  With today's Nuclear and Biological weapons in the hands of religious zealots with a mission to wipe out Western society, we face a very real threat that requires us to be proactive rather than reactive.

Jeff

In my excitement to try & describe my own story in the above post, unfortunately i forgot to make 3 very important points that i'd originally wanted to share with u all in here:

1)The "derrailed" war against terrorism has caused MORE chaos & destructions in Iraq(mainly) than it ever did under Saddam's regime!

2)As a result of this mistaken war, we've managed to create MORE & MORE terrorists, because so many ppl have had to live their lives in utter despair & with their backs against the wall--so to speak--and this has caused the further radicalizing of those MANY ppl who has suffered one way or another by this mistaken war against terrorism!

 3)More Western ppl who had simple lives prior to 9/11 have turned more racistic or ultra-nationalistic as a direct result of the failures of the "Coallition Of The Willing"(which for the most part, is made up of American & Brittish arms), because the more they experience 'losses' against the Western troops, the more hateful they become towards the Muslims & the whole lot!

 I can go on & on with my criticisms of this war against Iraq, & about GwB & Co., so on & so forth, but i honestly dont wanna upset myself by phrasing my own anger aganist the wrong politics of the aforementioned ppl, so i'll stop here for now.

 But if u all get the chance, u can go & watch the BBC docu.film on this page:

http://www.oneplanetonenation.com/ponightmares1.html

The rest of this 3-part docu.film is also on this site, but if there should be any technical problems, then just go on to http://video.google.com/ and type in the title of the docu.film in the box...

But they're EACH called:

1)Baby It’s Cold Outside

2)The Phantom Victory

3)The Shadows In The Cave

 ps- plz do NOT think me unkind, because im neither trying to create a propoganda here, nor do i want to have any heated discussions with anyone in here....im just an ordinary fellow who's pretty frustrated to see/hear/read so many ppl praise the actions of GwB & Co. as if they were some football hooligans fighting tooth&nail for their own team, even though their team was playing poorly & was about to move down to a 2nd division league!!

Remember this is all politics, and the less feelings & emotions were tied to it, the better!

Don't ever lose your objectivity in the matters of politics, if u want to debate it!

Thanks for hearing me out...

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for ur reply to my post...& also the kind words with regards to my own personal experiences in this issue.

u're absolutely right, when the regime in Iran changed in the end of the 70's, we were all blown away & totally overwhelmed to experience so many ppl crawl out of the woodwork & shout "Death to America" & what-not....Most of us felt completely helpless at the hands of so many mentally-disturbed & angry fanatics[actually imho i believe that many of these new radicals(who were mainly made up of the generation of "youngsters" born in the late 40's & early 50's) had experienced some kind of a TERRIBLE childhood, for ending up with so much hate & rage, & as extremists]...

This was the reason many of us felt compelled to escape the incredibly TOXIC atmosphere of the country, in the hope of finding another place in the world where we could live our lives in peace & harmony with the rest of our fellow human beings...

Little did we know that we were actually walking into a life full of disappointments & anguish, but we gradually learned to make peace with our own pasts & to make new bonds & roots wherever we now were located at.

Speaking from my own experiences with the fanatics & radicals though, it became clear to many of us that the 90's brought a new & fresh wind of change & reformation in Iran, which resulted in the election of the so-called "moderate" Khatami as the new prez of Iran in the late 90's, and it looked as if things were beginning to roll in the right direction for Iran & also for the rest of the world, because it seemed as though the doors towards the outside world were slowly but surely beginning to open up for Iran, and naturally this made MANY of us iranians outside of the country happy, because we could see the prospects of no longer feeling ashamed of ourselves or of our country of origin....however slow this process may have been, it was still a step towards the right direction.

But unfortunately it all ended swiftly & without any mercy, when those heartless radical muslims brought the whole world down to its feet by their horrific acts in the 9/11 events!!

Naturally i knew that the world would change eversince, and that this would bring some difficult moments of misery & trouble for me & others in my situation, and many of us were prepared to do whatever it demanded from us, to try & uphold a better standard & moral example for the rest of the world, so that it would somehow help bring this radical fraction of Islam into the light & to condemn it without any remorse or mercy!

However things took a turn for the worse when it suddenly became clear to us "moderates", that this whole global conflict was NOT solely orchestrated by the terrorists & the radicals, because it was appearant that the newly elected US gov't wanted to disregard the plea of other nations(UN) in order to take the front seat in the war against terror, by following its own "hunches".

Anyways to make a long story short, i feel as though i've personally had to pay a great price for all this global mayhem eversince 9/11 and im not blind enough not-to see the wrong hands of the Neo-Cons in this whole matter!

But since this is a discussion between 2 or more "ordinary ppl" under this thread, im naturally prone to understanding & even believing ur side of the story as well Jeff....somewhere deep inside i know that ur opinions & ur reactions are NOT bias, and that u --just like myself--are trying to make some sense out of all these otherwise NONSENSE issues, and that ur instincts could be just as "correct" as my own instincts!

I do however have a VERY contraversial opinion about what the US should have done on the day of 9/12...

im going to however wait a little longer to express what i believe US should've done in the aftermath of the 9/11 events, so that other ppl in here can post their own views in that regard, first, and then i'll proceed with my own piece...

Once again thanks for ur reply to my earlier post....and btw i was obviously in the middle of typing my following post when u posted ur reply here, therefore i didnt see ur post until i posted my 2nd post here, so i appologize if it sounded as if i was somehow ignoring ur post!!

Til next time....

PEACE.

Hi again S.ph.s,

     I forgot in which country you said you were currently living, but I know I speak for all Americans when I say we do not hold an entire race or religion of people responsible for the criminal actions of a select individual or group of individuals.  For example, in the wake of the Virginia Tech massacre, not a single American suggested that the South Korean people as a whole were responsible for what happened, and for this reason it was completely unnecessary for the country of South Korea or any other organizations to "apologize" for the sick man that carried out the executions.   You mentioned a few times that since 9/11 that you personally have experienced "difficult moments of misery & trouble for me & others in my situation".  I guess I don't know what your specific situation may be, but I can assure you that at least in this country "moderate" Muslims are respected as much as any other group or religion. 

     I took the time to watch the first of the three "documentaries" you posted, and I have to tell you this is one of the biggest distortions of the truth that I have seen since the other propaganda film by Michael Moore.  There is so much distortion and bias against the United States that I'm sure terrorist organizations use it to advance their agenda. This so called documentary makes the Soviet Union look like a benevolent and peaceful regime, and justifies the actions of terrorists like Zawahiri, while painting the US as sinister non-tolerant religious state that seeks to control the world for selfish materialistic reasons.  I found it ironic that they could refer to American's as self centered and materialistic, which contradicts the first assertion that they are made up of conservative religious "fundamentalists".  Even the most radical Christians are good moral people and treat each other as they would want to be treated.  Radical Islam on the other had are made up of thugs and murderers on a massive scale. 

   So let me get this striaght...  the United States is a threat to the world, but the Stalinist Soviets who killed 50+ million of their own people posed little or no threat?  S.ph.s, you really need to stop buying into this propaganda and start using some common sense.  This ridiculous film uses far left liberal political activists like Dr. Anne Cahn to support the theory that the Soviet Union was interested in peace and reduction of arms, and that our concern was unwarranted.  Also, the whole characterization of how Reagan came to power is a complete and utter distortion.  Reagan campaigned on "smaller government", "lower taxes", and "stronger military", and if all of these things happened to coincide with the "neocons" beliefs, than so be it, but I can assure you that Reagan would have still been elected even without their support because of his message!

Anyway, I'm happy to have this conversation with you and I want you to know it's refreshing to be able to discuss this often emotional topic with someone who is willing to do so in an intelligent and respectful way!  Kudos,

Jeff

Hey Chase,

    Any details you want to contribute other than you find it easier to swallow?  Hard to debate such a general statement... assuming you are even interested in a debate.  My points are very clear and I use specific events and details, so feel free to challenge anything I've said.  Also, who is the bully, me or GWB?  My guess is you will say both of us.  Sorry you feel that way. :-(

Hi again Jeff, and thank u for ur incredibly passionate engagement in this debate, and i can tell u this much that eventhough we 2 may be positioned very far away from eachother in the political spectrum, i still have immense respect for passionate souls such as urself!

Regarding ur comments about the general friendly attitude of the Americans towards other nationalities & ethnicities, u're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT....i have also lived in the States myself, and i can personally vouch for that....Americans are generally VERY hospitable & open-minded(open-hearted) towards non-Americans, and i often long for the same kind of open-heartedness overhere where i live...

i live in Denmark....yet another wonderful country with beautiful traditions & culture & ppl.....but unfortunately the last few yrs. there's been a growing feeling of hostility among her ppl, which is the reason why i stated earlier that my life has been directly influenced by the recent yrs. of global anti terror policies, because unfortunately a policy like this causes a marginalization & sterotyping of ppl which is anything but "kind" towards its TRUE victims,,,,believe u me sir!

But i must however distance myself from ur comments about that docu.film because in my humble opinion it's incredibly objective & un-bias!

U said that it portrays ppl like Zawaheri under a better light, which is so far away from the truth....infact if there is any feelings that one associates with the scenes with him in the prison(which is in the court room appearantly), shouting slogans & political CRAP, it is a chilling feeling down one's spines, feeling utterly petrified by their hateful & inhuman nature!

The only thing that u may be right about, is the fact that the maker of this docu.film may be prone to having left wing Liberal ideas, which imho should NOT be a crime, the way u seem to condemn him(in so many words)!

I'm not blind to notice his objectivity though, EVEN IF he does happen to have Liberal tendencies! I actually think that his attempts at trying to sketch a broader view of the whole crazed situation, succeeds almost perfectly(nobody's perfect as we all should know)!

So my suggestion to u is to NOT feel intimitated by this docu.film's immediate impact, but see if u can ask urself questions that can eventually bring u a little deeper than ur initial reactions to it...

Anyhow that is my own opinion ofcoarse, and should u not feel motivated enough to dig a little deeper into the film, or even somehow provoked by my suggestion, then by all means i accept ur opinions as they are, though respectfully disagreeing with them!

And btw Chase, im delighted to read ur positive words about the film.....although i must also say that ur other comments to Jeff may have been little unnecessary, eventhough i do understand ur frustrations, because as u said it urself, it's really a darn good film!

Perhaps we can all agree in the sentiment that all we want is love & harmony....nothing above or below that!

**Hugs** to Chase...

**High 5s** to Jeff... 

Btw u also mentioned that the docu.film was ALSO trying to portray the old Soviet(the land of Stalin) as a sympathetic regime....

I am however prone to have a slightly different perseption of that.....it ONLY tries to "un-demonize" the old belief that believed the Soviets were the MONSTERS that the NeoCons were trying hard to convince everyone else about....It did NOT try to portray them as being nice or sympathetic....only a slightly bit more innocent than previously presumed by the NeoCons!

And i also believe that ur arguements about Stalin's TRUELY criminal record, is somewhat irrelevant, in that he ruled in the 30's-40's Soviet, and his methods were strongly condemned by his very next predicessor(spell?) Krutchoff in the mid 60's....

By the time Gorbetchoff had reached the top position as the Soviet leader, their communistic idealogies had grown millions of light yrs. away from Stalin's time, which in itself is a healthy sign of "self criticism" & growth!

But if i were to give u a specifically CRITICAL comment about the way the US gov't has moved eversince the 50's McCarthyism, all i need to point out is ur own comments, which clearly demonstrate that the general public knowledge of the American ppl has moved/progressed incredibly LITTLE(as a result of the witch hunt policies of the US gov't against the left wings in the 50's, among others)!

The last bit is ofcoarse MY OWN opinion, and has nothing to do with the docu.film.

Hello S.ph.s,

     Again I just want to say I enjoy our conversations and it's clear by the way you express yourself and by your content that you are educated and intelligent.  It's exciting to me to have the opportunity to discuss this topic in such depth because unfortunately most people that disagree with me end up resorting to emotional ti-raids which kill the debate in its tracks.  I don't really have time to address everything you said, but I would like to weigh in on a few points I think are paramount to this discussion:

The documentary you sent me builds upon the premise that neo-conservatives took over the United States and disingenuously exaggerated outside threats as a tool to focus, unite, and mobilize its core constituency who would otherwise engage in self centered, materialistic and decadent behavior.  The logic being, that the neocons consider this decadent behavoir part of the moral decay of our country and by diverting attention to a noble cause (such as defeating an evil enemy), this strategy would unite the country and give the people a common “feel good” goal.  I would argue that these “threats” to our country were in fact very real and very deserving of aggressive and proactive policies.

What this documentary fails to do is go back further and explain where our true “proactive” policies originated.  During World War II Americans fought back the totalitarian regimes of Japan and Germany at an enormous human cost.  Before we were attacked at Pearl Harbor, we had a very isolationist policy and did not want to get involved even as these two countries were taking over Europe. Europe itself did little or nothing as Adolph Hitler rose to power and began to conquer countries one by one.  After the war, we learned an important lesson that changed our policy of isolationism to one that was proactive.  I’m sure you know that John F. Kennedy was not a conservative, yet he strongly believed that it was in our national security interests to help shape other “developing” countries into adopting our democratic type of government (or something similar).  That is why he said in his inaugural address, “Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.”  History has shown that totalitarian regimes are a threat to their neighbors, unlike democratically elected republics like the United States.

Contrary to assertions made in this documentary, since the inception of the United States, not a single religion encouraged it's members to avoid voting.   This is a false assertion used to advance this theory that neocons were rising out of the ashes of the decadent US and mobilizing its troops to change American policy.  The truth is there are hundreds of diverse religions and organizations across the United States and all of them are involved in shaping American policy, as they should be.  I’m not aware of a single religion that has ever discouraged its members from voting in elections.

The rest of the documentary relies on this erroneous “neocon” premise to advance the notion that America purposefully propped up enemies like the Stalinist Soviet Union and others.  By the way, I use the word “Stalinist” as oppose to “Stalin” to describe the communist doctrine and ideology of Joseph Stalin, which was very much alive and well up until the collapse of the Soviet Union in the late 1980s.  There is no difference between the Communist USSR and "Stalinist USSR" in the context of my statements.  Both result in gross human right violations and mass murder, and both expand and affect neighboring countries like they did in Vietnam, Berlin, Cuba, Nicaragua in the 80’s, the Middle East etc.  Economic conditions are so bad in these totalitarian countries that they must attack and conquer other countries in order to survive. People live under extreme poverty and disease, while their government steals technology from other countries and increases their technological weapons and military.  Anyone with common sense should know it's better to over estimate the capabilities of your enemy because there are dire consequences if they are underestimated.  The primary responsibility of the federal government is to protect the country from foreign enemies.  Remember that the Soviet Union was called the "Iron curtain" for a very good reason, and it was very difficult and often impossible to know the extent of their sophistication and progress.

The same thing applies to the Islamic extremists that make no attempt to hide their contempt for Western society. If we underestimate them, there will be dire consequences. These are people that strap bombs on their children if it means taking out a handful of infidels.  If we don’t take an active role now in rooting out these terrorist thugs at their source, they will continue to recruit new people and grow like the cancer that they are.  Terrorist States like Iran and Syria will continue to openly fund organizations like Al Qaida, Hezbolla, and Hamas (sorry for the poor spelling) who will continue to launch attacks against Israel, the United States and the rest of the civilized world.  As we learned in World War II, Isolationism will only postpone the inevitable conflict that will snowball and become much more difficult to resolve given the technological advances and weaponry they seek.  Al Qaida in Iraq (yes that’s actually what they call themselves) has been bombing Mosques and civilians in order to cause a sectarian civil war. We've captured Iranian nationals fighting along side terrorists in Iraq.  We've found conclusive evidence that Iran weapons are being used to kill our soliders. Bin Laden and Zawahiri publicly said Iraq is the main front in their Jihad.  If we fail in Iraq, we are validating their strategy and encouraging this kind of brutal killing, not to mention we are handing them a victory which will embolden them in ways we cannot imagine. Being from Iran yourself and having seen first hand the radical take over of your government, you know how these radicals think.  You know this threat is very real and very deadly, and very deserving of our full focus.

Jeff

Alright Jeff, i've now read ur last post, and i enjoyed it...thanks for ur detailed & deep analysis, seen from ur p.o.v...

im going to wait a little though, in the hope of seeing what other ppl perhaps might have to say about this issue...& to see who else generally agrees with ur views( & also who else may oppose them)...!?

Talk with u again soon...

Cheers...

/sphs