The situation is out of control & utterly hopeless now.....atleast from MY perspective.

Unfortunately it is from many peoples perspectives. So what would you propose the people do then? Wait for their demise? Or fight for their right to freedom?

Chertitio, Do not despair, it does not help. Although I completely understand, more than you can imagine. One has to work for the good of the commonweal and hope for the best. Like a famous master said, "Be realistic -- plan for a miracle". In other words, it doesn't serve us to plan for anything less. Take care, Bela

In other languages it is more clear, but freedom you can never lose if you in fact possess it. Your liberty is at stake though. I think the USAans should worry more about their freedom and liberty than somebody else's -- especially if we haven't been asked to worry about it.

Anyway, that's the way I see it  

Nah....it's more like a strategical retreat....

Speaking of sth else, how crazy was it to hear Ahmadinejad speak to the Columbia Uni. today...

As the saying goes, they should just give the man all the "rope" he needs, so that he'd hang himself with it eventually!

Greetings everyone, I have been reading the post and I am baffled . Why are posts being locked . To answer your question Coco you need to ask Jeff as he started this thread . Diffrence is important for growth I believe and sharing our views helps us all become clear about what we truly believe and why. I opted out of this discussion as I found it pointless and disrepectful . Because people began to attack one another and the issue I think got side barred . Jeff has assumed that I would use violence if me or those i loved were threathened . I would not and I can say this in good faith as I have lived in war torn countries and have been given the opportunity to see first hand how love and goodness can melt the hardest heart. I wholeheartly disagree with the US foriegn policy, I do not see how violence can bring peace . If you beat a children for being violent they learn violence if on the other hand you use tolerance and reason those same children learn tolerance and reason. I am not suggesting that the people outside the US are children , just that what you do gets done to you . Some one has to stand up and say enough . I do believe that the US has bigger wars to wage on its own soil such as racism and poverty and all that it entails. I have read your posts Coco and I do not understand how someone who practices Reiki can hold such agression towards human beings. This is not a judgement it is as I stated I do not understand . I believe we have all been the best and worst of humanity in one life or another and this world is about teaching us to evovle . I am not a christian however that faith has been used as a justification for what is happening in Iraq did Jesus not teach to turn the other cheek . as I understand it an eye for an eye comes from the old testament which was put to rest after Christ came . Maybe i am wrong as I said it is not my faith . May you all go well and I truly pray that no one is kille dwhilst we sleep for either side GO IN PEACE . LOVE and Understanding Kari

1. I locked my posts so as to stop the flood of emails to my inbox- rather than send them to the spam file.  I thought that way, I can come on when I have time and peruse the topic, as I had found it the first time.  Alas, that has not worked.  And here I am....(if anyone can explain how to do this, please drop me a line....something about the first post, which i went back to try to find.... etc.)

2.  I have to agree w/ Jeff.  Until such time as you have found yourself looking down at the barrel of a gun (as I have, infront of my children) then you really cant say how you would react. Their father responded by shooting back.  As is our right and duty to protect our own.  It is very easy to pass judgement, etc on the "what ifs"-but until it happens to you and yours, you don't know how it will go down.  It is inane at best to say you "would never".  I learned that the "would never" doesnt work in real life in my managerial psychology class-I could not say I "would never" steal-as the question that was posed was "would you steal medicine for your family if you could not afford it".  Duh.....

3.  Kari, you've read my posts, but you have apparently not understood them, or have not read  which posts that came before that I was responding to. For instance-the change of my name from Cocconibs (or the proper spelling cocaonibs) to coconuts, to how I sign my posts (which is childish at best-at worst, just shows the mentality of the poster) the personal attacks on my responses, etc.   I'm not sure what you know @ Reiki and it's practice-but it is not rolling over on attacks made by unknown chat posters.  I think that "exhibiting agression" and defending ones opinion are two different things.

4.  Most importantly-and I say this again, and again-it does not matter to me what the "world" thinks about the US.  Caring is what got us involved in Viet Nam....Rawanda........Kuwait.......and still in the Middle East.  Once we stop "caring"-stop shelling out money hand over fist to other countries-stop sending our troops in to "help" with their democracy, etc.-then we will be able to focus more on our own, such as the problems you mention.  Charity begins at home.

5.  Christianity is not my faith-but I have had to study it, along with several others-my eduction on that front continues.  No, the old testament was not "put to rest after Christ came".  Just ask any Jew.  And yes, sometimes might does make right.  I have never seen Christianity used as a "justification" as to our occupation in the middle east.  If that were the case, the US would hardly be standing side by side w/ Israel.  One thing you fail to realize-the US was founded on  "judeo-christian" principals, but home to all manners of worship.  And racisism is everywhere-in every country-hardly in the US alone.  Keep in mind, my family is pretty well spread out.  There is racism in EU, Asia, the four corners of the world-there always has been.  We can only keep trying to "breed it out" if you will.  

6.  I've made mention to some fantastic books that have made a difference to me.  One of my favorites is The Four Agreements.  He's an excerpt that I have to fall back on, when I see such "smack" being written in a public forum.

.....#2. Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.

So you see, the two who have responded so negatively to my posts have done so out of their own self loathing-and because they had nothing constructive to say in response to my post. 

Last but not least-I don't know which country you are from.  I can only say I would not have chosen to be born in any other country than the United States.  There is a reason that our borders are still flooded by individuals and families looking to come here and live the American Dream.  And for those of us here who are not working to living the dream-then shame on you!

Hope I've clarified your confusion!

Love and Light!

C

 

 

 

Hi Coco,

I have to disagree with you re the US foriegn policy being about caring it is and in my opinion has always been motivated by finicial advantage to the US either directly or indirectly .
I have been physically threathened and never have i retaliated with violence.

I know a lot about Reiki and none on my freinds who practice Reiki would get invovled with the personal attacks that I have read and I have to say thta done of them would justify killing either .

Kari

Greetings Kari,

I agree with your stand on violence. Violence breeds violence. In the United States, the people believe they are peace-loving. It's true. If you took a poll they would say they love peace and are peace-loving. This is the reason the cartoons the "Ninja Turtles" was such a popular program here. You see, the Ninja Turtles were peace loving turtles, but, but... underneath the surface lived an "Evil Shredder" who needed to be vanquished to protect the peace-loving turtles. This is the psyche of the USAains. They believe they love peace but must protect against evil, and as soon as the evil is vanquished we can go back to peace. Only that never happens. This is why they are honestly able to believe and state they are peace-loving. It's a conundrum. It's sort of how Coco can believe he is not aggressive.

Men have been honoring violence and dominance for 10,000 years. According to the North American poet, Gary Snyder, who sat Zazen in Japan for ten years, this is merely a temporary aberration. I believe that too. The pendulum will swing and is swinging back. All will find balance. It won't be much fun in the meantime though.

Namaste

 

 

Hi Kari,

    Glad you could join us again!  I've been unavailable myself for the past week or so.

     I just wanted to point out that the passengers on the flights that were slammed into the World Trade Center did not make any attempts to resist.  On American Airlines flight 11 Mohamed Atta pressed the wrong button on the intercom and announced to traffic controllers: "Nobody move. everything will be OK.  If you try to make any moves, you'll endanger yourself and the airplane.  Just stay quiet."  Two flight attendants and a passenger were stabbed or had their throats slashed by the hijackers before the plane was deliberately destroyed.

    Kari, you use the words "retaliate" and "violence", but this is not what we are talking about.  We are referring to self defense, which has nothing to do with retaliation.  If the passengers or crew of these flights had the benefit of hindsight, you can bet they would have used whatever means necessary to neutralize the hijackers in order to save the lives of all those people in the World Trade Center and possibly their own.  As you can see, there are cases where the results of pacifism result in death and destruction.  Radical Islam is such an enemy, and if you do not put up a fight, they will roll over you and yours without hesitation. Do you have a Police force in New Zealand?  Don't you support their use of deadly force when it's needed to save innocent lives? 

    If you get a chance, please read the following article (http://drhelen.blogspot.com/2007/08/non-resistance-in-face-of-violence-is.html). It's only one page, and it clearly shows that there are predators out there who are heartless.  In this case a 41 year old man beat 4 grandmothers with a hammer at a beauty salon even though they did not resist. A similar incident occurred in another beauty salon and the women stood up for themselves.  Do you remember the Zodiac killings in Northern California back in the 1960's?  Completely defenseless people were brutally killed even through they complied with the killer's every wish and did not resist.  You are free to live the way you wish Kari.  This is your prerogative and I respect that.  Given the stone cold Islamist predators we face today who are capable of wiping out thousands of innocent people with a dirty bomb or other WMD, I really hope you understand and respect my views.  You mentioned that the USA motivation is financial, yet we are looking at about three quarter's of a trillion dollars in costs, and thousands of soldier's lives!  Sure the US stands to benefit greatly in the long term from a free and democratically elected Iraq, but the fact is our National Security depends on bringing peace in Iraq which is the primary reason we ousted Saddam and are fighting Al Qaeda.  Al Qaeda and their ilk are butchering innocent people every day yet I rarely hear any condemnation by all these anti-American groups.  Just look at what is going in Iraq, in India, in Briton, in Egypt, in Spain, in Russia.  The Russian's did not go into Iraq, yet hundreds of children were killed by these radical Islamic groups.  This is truly a global war on terrorism, and we cannot just sit back and let them continue to kill innocent people indiscriminately without resisting.  That's suicide, and I'm sure you agree suicide wrong.

 Jeff

greetings Jeff,

Before I respond to your comments could you please explain why you raised this topic on this site . It seems a strange choice of chatrooms .

Ok re NZ police our police are not armed in general we have a special squad that use fire arms . I do not support the use of deadly force no matter what the situaction and I would say that is the feeling of most kiwis . Just last week a man was killed by the police and it has caused a public out cry . We believ it could of be done diffrently without the lose of life . This is the general opinion .

I am not islamic I do see the beauty in some islamic teaches I have lived in Islamic countries and since SEp 11 I have spoken in depth with many Muslims . The common thread I can see is that they do not condone sucide bombers and the like , they do believe that the US has a case to answer in terms of dictating interanl policts in many countries .

I truly belive hate breds hate I opted out of this discuss due to the impact it had upon me I was begining to feel aggression to you Jeff and the people that hold your view , I was getting drawe into a good bad dichtomy that is not what I want for my life.

I don't think I will ever understand how you can justifiy killing  . I don't think you will understand my abhorance of your stance . No matter what you say I will not change my view killing another being is for me like cutting of my arm or leg as I beleive we are all one. I am connected to the whole of humanity and my heart hurts  when we maim each other I am not interested in power and dominance and that is what I see the motivation for the war is .

I do think your troops should begin to retreat , however I think you ( US) should leave non miltrary support in Iraq to support Iraq towards true freedom .

I also think that it would be helpful for US citzens to truly look around there neighbour hoods and support their own people to be all that they could be .
I am interested have you helped out at a homeless shelter if you have I would be interested in your views .

Go in Beauty Kari

Kia Kaha

Hello Kari,

      On the home page of this website there is a poll where people contribute their opinions on various topics.  One of those topics was "What should be done about Iraq?"  I posted my first commentary on this forum because people were commenting on Iraq during a "Global Warming" discussion.  This particular topic falls within "Politics" which in my opinion covers the topic of Iraq and Terrorism.

      I do wish all Muslims were like those you have spoken with Kari, but the unfortunate truth is there are way too many that plot to kill indiscriminately and many more that condone their actions.  Do you remember the various video clips of thousands of Muslims dancing in the streets celebrating the 9/11 massacre right after it happened?  This was a wake up call to me and its an image I will never forget.

     I know you think we should retreat, but the Iraqi government AND the Iraqi people overwhelmingly want our troops to stay and help them fight Al Qaeda.  Not sure if you've been following the news, but Al Qaeda has suffered significant set backs over the past few months and Iraqi casualties have dropped.  This can only be attributed to the troop surge.  Sunnis, Kurds, and Shiites are fighting side by side with our troops against this enemy, which clearly shows this is not a civil war and that progress is being made. 

      Kari, I know I cannot convince you that what we are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan is noble and right.  That's OK, I harbor no ill will towards you and I know that you have a good heart.  Let's agree to disagree.  It's funny you should ask me about the homeless... I was at Church yesterday and I thought of you.  Our Church feeds the homeless in our neighborhood and I'm actively donating canned foods regularly.  I've also increased my financial donations to our Church since you and I spoke a while back and it's quite rewarding.  I do want you to beware of the misconceptions about Poverty in our country. If you have a chance I urge you to check out the following article which I posted on my blog:  http://community.mysticgames.com/blogs/jeff1/archive/2007/09/25/poverty-in-america-behind-the-numbers.aspx. There are of course people in our country who are destitute and in need of charity, but the numbers are far less than you have been led to believe by these Clinton and George Soros front groups.  For example, 43 percent of those classified as "poor" in the US own their homes!  80% of the "poor" have air conditioning... and the list goes on.  I just want to make sure you get a more balanced perspective.

 Jeff

I was wondering how this got started here!!

Your post made me think of something, that I think hits the nail on the head (oooho, is that too agressive?? LOL)

Back during the "Cold War" w/ the former USSR, CBS did a documentary on the "poor" here in America.  Russian TV ran it-at the urging of their government.  Why? Because they wanted to show that there are indeed poor people here in America.  It backfired.  Because what the Russians saw was that our poorest citizens had cars and of all things-microwave ovens. 

I still think the poorest of the poor here in the states would rather be here than anywhere else. 

OH!! If you have a Wild Oats in your area-they have been a huge help in donating food to various groups-especially the food pantries I supported up in New England. 

Love and Light!

 

C

 

There is a difference between being aggressive and assertive.  How sad it is, bela, that even in your posts to others, you must invoke your "opinon" for lack of a better term of me.  Do re-read the post about what Don Miguel Ruiz teaches about other's opinions?  And if you ever have the time, pick up the Four Agreements.  It's a worthwhile read.  There is also another saying that Opinions are like.........I'm sure you've heard of it ;)

I went to a talk held by a group I volunteer with.  It was a zen-budist that came to address the group.  He said without war and strife, there cannot be peace.  I don't know that I agree with that. I think there can be peace everyday, just by being polite to the girl behind the checkout counter-or smiling as you walk into the elavator.  It's contagious. 

Kari, some of those whom you know who practice Reiki are vegetarians.  I am not.  It does not make me anymore or less a Reiki practioner. 

As much as I think TV is a waste of time, I was watching "walking with cavemen" this weekend on the discovery channel.  It was interesting that they pointed out as soon as we began walking on two legs, instead of four, our brain capacity quickly grew.  We also started making weapons!  Ironic!

C

Hi Coconibs,

Some of my friends a vegitrian others are not . We all see humanity as sacred all humanity . I think your asummtion that people would rather be in America whether they are poor or not is aggrongant i think and truly lacks an understanding of what it is like to live in chronic poverty which many of your nationals do . In all other developed countries people live in reletive poverty this means that ther basic needs are meet but they are excluded from participating fully in society due to poverty . Chronic poverty which occurs in the global South and America is were the basic needs for surivial are lacking , that is food shelter ,medicine and education . I am not prepared to debate this . It is fact many reports have been written peer reviewed articles relating this , there are many NGO's in the US who are working to enable the poor however until they are seen they can not be heard . No other developed country has this occurring yes we all have poverty however it is reletive . I also understand how hard it is to admit to something you cannot see and chronic poverty is invisible to most in the US either by choice or ignorance .

I don't see Bela attacking you and I am always waring of people quoting me other peoples teachings . I walk this earth walk to learn how to beat my own drum , no other being no matter how great can tell me how  to live my life not Buddha , not Jesus Mohammed , Mary or any inspiration spirtual leader .

I would also like to note that I am dyslexic so if my written word is a bit funky I am sure you will get the gist of whast I am saying , if you don't please ask me .

Please forgive me if my tone is aggressive it is unintentional I am a little tried of the Jabs that is all go in Beauty Kari